Mingo Palacios:

Welcome to the Purpose Driven Church Podcast where we sit down with leaders in and around the church to discuss current trends and challenges and how the five purposes of the local church matter today more than ever.

Mingo Palacios:

Hey everybody, welcome to the Purpose Driven Podcast and for this unique conversation, it’s also going to be the pilot of our EastLake Church network podcast. So Purpose Driven, thanks for sharing the bandwidth today. Also, I want to give a special shout out to RebelFish Local for sharing, again, your guys’ podcast studio while we learn to live and breathe in San Diego podcasting locally from San Diego County. Our guest today, Todd Phelps, from what will be REVÉ Church, Carmel Valley.

Todd Phelps:

Yes.

Mingo Palacios:

Coming to the scene early 2019 we’re really excited that you’re here with us, man.

Todd Phelps:

Yeah, man. Good to be here.

Mingo Palacios:

Yeah, absolutely. So, on our podcast, the core component or our core audience is always emerging leaders, but also seasoned leaders. Typically those are executive level pastors or senior pastors themselves. And we try to kind of bring clarity to the table and we kind of give like an open door for people who might be considering ministry or are volunteering in ministry. They kind of hear the heartbeat of people in leadership in ministry and we just try to be a helpful voice for everyone. So, today we’re talking about the value and I would argue the need of launching a big idea with community. And Todd, you’re in a really unique seat because you’re actually, the first time we met was through the Purpose Driven conference. You were part of the church planters track that we had. You met John. John came all wild and crazy.

Todd Phelps:

[laughing]

Mingo Palacios:

He was like, “You’ve got to meet this guy named Todd!” And then we met and now we are co-laboring. We’re co-laborers together.

Todd Phelps:

That’s awesome.

Mingo Palacios:

Why don’t you do us and our viewership an idea. Can you give us like the two minute backstory on how and what the Lord kind of brought to your heart through the idea of REVÉ Church and then talk to me about what the process was getting involved in partnering with a network. That’s kind of a new deal. It’s been around and then I think there’s still a lot of newness that people don’t really understand what that means. So could you break that off for our listening audience?

Todd Phelps:

Yeah, for sure. First of all, thanks for having me on this podcast, man. This is great. Yeah, my wife and I, we had a vision about a year and a half ago to start a new church. We were on the East Coast, pastored in two cities, Charleston, South Carolina, and Charlotte, North Carolina. And we really had a vision to plant really in a place where there weren’t a lot of churches. There was that need. And where I’m from, you know, really Charleston grew up in Charleston. There’s a church on every corner. And so we really had a heart to go for the lost. And so we kind of looked at the map and said, “Well, where are we going to go?” And you know, San Diego came to the top [laughing]. Really? Well, why not, right? I mean, if you’re going to plant a church, why not just go to-

Mingo Palacios:

That sounds like a guilty laugh, bro. You sound like you’ve got guilt that you’re dealing with.

Todd Phelps:

Yeah yeah no guilt at all, man. Hundred percent guilt-free.

Mingo Palacios:

You can do it in Ohio, but San Diego is a great option too.

Todd Phelps:

You could go to Ohio but why would you? Are there people still in the Midwest? Yeah. But anyway, we thought where can we go? We love San Diego. We always vacationed in San Diego. So we’re like, “Let’s go plant a church there.” And, but again, still living on the East Coast and so my pastor Greg Surratt was just beautiful, like just coaching process, coaching me through this whole journey. And he was like, “Let’s slow down here. Are you really called to San Diego or do you just want to live in a beautiful city?”

Mingo Palacios:

Yeah. Yeah. You’re like, “Maybe both.”

Todd Phelps:

Maybe both you know. And so through that process of him mentoring me, us praying through this whole thing and really just through our relationships, connected with James, at –

Mingo Palacios:

James Grogan, senior pastor of EastLake Church and fairly new, right? He’s like been senior pastor-

Todd Phelps:

For like eleven and a half months.

Mingo Palacios:

Totally.

Todd Phelps:

Yeah. So, um, he actually kind of found me on social media. I made a post and was like, “Hey, I’m super excited about planting a church in San Diego.” He saw that and private messaged me and said, “Hey man, we should hang out.”

Mingo Palacios:

He slid into your dm’s.

Todd Phelps:

And so yeah, direct messaged me and literally through that message, we had an hour long call and found out we had all these mutual relationships.

Mingo Palacios:

That’s crazy.

Todd Phelps:

My pastor knows his dad.

Mingo Palacios:

Oh, that’s killer.

Todd Phelps:

So it all kind of came full circle.

Mingo Palacios:

I’m going to pause you for one particular reason because the power of social today in the church planting ministry, launching world is more, it’s got more impact. It’s got stronger ties. It’s got deeper reaches than I think any of us can bargain for.

Todd Phelps:

Totally.

Mingo Palacios:

I love that the podcast has, it’s showed up in, we get pastors, I think of Jeremy Dawson who’s in India and he’s like, “All of our young adults listen to your podcast.” And I have no clue. So shout out to Jeremy Dawson and your crew. But you probably weren’t intending that somebody on the opposite coast would just fumble upon your social post. But how valuable is it in today’s day and space? I’ve got Robert here. That’s Robert’s specialty, helping people be found through social.

Todd Phelps:

Yeah.

Mingo Palacios:

This is an integral part. It’s not something that you do in addition to ministry. It’s a part of what your ministry does.

Todd Phelps:

Totally.

Mingo Palacios:

Yeah.

Todd Phelps:

Totally. Yeah. So that whole thing was purely accidental. I really had no, again, my pastor was really like, “Dude, are you really called to this? Are you really called to this?” I think that’s the question any pastor is asking. Is this like your idea? Is this something you’re coming up with or is this something God is calling you to? Is this an obedience thing for you or is this kind of just a good idea that you want to jump on?

Mingo Palacios:

That’s good. How’d you decipher in your own soul if somebody is asking that question?

Todd Phelps:

[laughing]

Mingo Palacios:

And maybe the answer is I’m not quite sure yet.

Todd Phelps:

Yeah. I think the answer lies in the rear view mirror.

Todd Phelps:

Oh Wow. That’s very deep.

Todd Phelps:

You know? I think, you know, we all have this idea that we hear from God. And I’d love to tell you right here, right now that I hear from God and I listen to God and this is what God is saying, but you know, a lot of times I don’t and that’s really what my pastor, a lot of this goes to Greg Surratt. Greg Surratt, founding pastor of seacoast church, Charleston, South Carolina. A lot of what he coached me through is this. And I think for us really it was like, “Okay, if we’re called to this, then God has to open the doors. If we’re called to this, then God has to make this happen.” All the doors. And I will just say this, all the significant doors that I’ve walked through, I had no part in opening.

Mingo Palacios:

You didn’t kick down any hinges.

Todd Phelps:

Nothing. Even the James reaching out to me, finding me on social media, which I’m not a big name on social media. I have like 100 followers.

Mingo Palacios:

Yeah.

Todd Phelps:

So reaching out to me, that is not-

Mingo Palacios:

Just being found in a sea of people to potentially be stumbled upon.

Todd Phelps:

A sea of people and you know, “for such a time as this.” It’s only a God thing.

Mingo Palacios:

So good. I love just the reality that if a vision has been planted in you or if some potential future thing is being planted in you, by God, He’s already doing the work ahead of you to create the spaces for that to happen. That’s not to say it’s not going to go without challenge.

Todd Phelps:

Right. Right.

Mingo Palacios:

But He certainly is giving you enough mental and soul cues to say, “Give Me one more week. Give Me one more day. Give Me one more effort in this direction.”

Todd Phelps:

Yeah. And really, I mean, that’s a good point. The timing of this is uncanny. Uncanny. I mean, there’s no way I can make this up. James Grogan just became senior pastor of Eastlake Church, I think 11, 12 months ago. Like, that’s real. He just rolled out this vision 12 months ago. I mean everything that’s happening right now, the program that we’re a part of, the residency, all of the funding for that, the infrastructure for that was not built a year ago.

Mingo Palacios:

When the vision planted.

Todd Phelps:

When the vision was planted in us. So it literally took all these pieces coming together and us submitting to the authority in our lives, our pastors, submitting to God’s timing in our lives, saying, “God, if this is your calling on our lives, we want to just go.” And so literally what it’s been now, now is the fun part. I think the hard part is like, you know, it’s all hard, but the fun part is like just jumping in the river and just going-

Mingo Palacios:

With the flow.

Todd Phelps:

With the flow, dude. We’re in the river. We’re literally saying, God, what do You have for us? What do you want us to do?” We’re literally just going wherever God wants us to go.

Mingo Palacios:

Because you’ve said yes to the larger yes. Right? You’re in the right vein now. It’s just like, “Lord, move the rudder as you please.”

Todd Phelps:

Exactly.

Mingo Palacios:

Right.

Todd Phelps:

And that’s where we’re at.

Mingo Palacios:

I’ve got a question because certainly there’s a segment of our listening audience that will eventually be entertaining the idea of planting or leading a church one day.

Todd Phelps:

Yeah.

Mingo Palacios:

But there are several people I think who have a God-given idea, inspiration, there’s a courage building up in them right now for something maybe ministry related, maybe not, but it’s still God breathed, right?

Todd Phelps:

Yes.

Mingo Palacios:

I think of like Daniel recently deciding to kind of really kick up his creativity bone in like a photography and helping people tell better stories. Robert and Liz started a business several years ago that was a God-breathed vision. What are some of the benefits you’ve experienced? You already kind of detailed a few of them, just having some serious mentorship in your world, helping you connect dots, right? You’re in a network idea. It’s like baby infantile genesis idea of a network residency. What did that look like for you stepping out because you can always launch something alone, right? What was the like draw maybe in your mind? Was it the idea that you’d be connected to somebody who’s been down that road before? What were the benefits that you saw in coming together with somebody already doing something?

Todd Phelps:

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think of several things. Number one I think of just spiritual authority. If someone’s not submitted to an authority, that to me is dangerous. So I think that’s part one. And for me, this is tough. This is a challenge. This is something that doesn’t come easy for me, submitting to a pastor and allowing that pastor to tell you hard things.

Mingo Palacios:

Wow.

Todd Phelps:

And then I think once you’re there, then you have to be a part of a team. It doesn’t matter how big your vision is. If you can’t launch the vision and if you can’t continue the vision, it’s not going to work. So I can have an idea to plant a church in Southern California, which might be one of the hardest things to do. But if there’s no tracks, and if there’s no leadership in my life, if there’s no team around me, then it’s not going to work. And so that was for me, coming from the East Coast to the West was an extreme shift. And so having the network, the EastLake Network, I mean, dude, it’s been just everything. They help us acclimate, they help us find the area, to help us with team, they help us with funding. I think the bigger the vision, the bigger the team that you have to have around you.

Mingo Palacios:

That’s really good. Whoo. That’s good. Did you guys hear that? The bigger the vision, the bigger the team, the bigger the support system to see that vision come to total fruition?

Todd Phelps:

One hundred percent. Yeah.

Mingo Palacios:

Yeah. I think recently, you know, Eugene Peterson, he passed away and one of the biggest things they say or that came connected to the image of Eugene Peterson was, “A long faithfulness in the same direction.” I think if I didn’t quote that, if I didn’t miss quote that it’s that idea that it’s a long haul, right? And it’s faithfulness for the long haul in the same direction. And a lot of times, not just life, but other vision competes, right? Other important factors, other timely things can come in and they can compete for the vision at hand. And one of the best ways you can keep that same trajectory is by having other people invited to the process to help keep you going long haul in the right direction.

Todd Phelps:

Yeah.

Mingo Palacios:

Super good. What are some of the misconceptions you think that people have when it comes to like belonging to a network? Because you’ve got both. You’ve got Purpose Driven has a network of churches that kind of express same belief. They talked The Great Commission, The Great Commandment, balanced out in five purposes. There are plenty of churches that belong to that in the hundreds of thousands of churches that have said, “Yeah, we want to be in that same rhythm.” EastLake Church network is a new network of churches, hyper centralized in the southern California area. Also Tijuana is a part of that network. When people go, “Oh dude, you’re part of a network.” Are there misconceptions you have to deconstruct?

Todd Phelps:

Yeah, I think maybe there’s this idea of, you know, you’re selling out or whatever. You’re not staying true to who God’s called you to be or what God’s called you to. I think the opposite. I think if you’re going to really get off the ground in a sustainable way, again, I’m all about sustainability. I’m all about existing in the future. I can have a great vision, but if I don’t exist, it doesn’t matter and I can’t impact the world. I can’t impact people’s lives that way. So I have to figure out, “Okay, this is what I want to do now how do I do it?” And just being a part of a network and having EastLake guys you, and again, East Lake is very, very different than other churches. I mean, they’re literally giving me money. They’re giving me people and they’re telling me to plant in their backyard. So I think you have to find those types of organizations, no matter what you’re trying to do, you have to, you have to find those organizations to partner with you to help get the thing going.

Mingo Palacios:

Yeah. And let me extend a word, like a future word for some listeners because I would argue that that’s not the common practice for churches, right? Everyone’s just trying to figure out how to get as many people as they can to the next Sunday thing. Right? And so I was so encouraged looking at EastLake from the Saddleback property going, “Oh, you guys are like us” when I was wearing this. I’m still wearing Saddleback jersey. I went to Saddleback men this morning.

Todd Phelps:

[laughing]

Mingo Palacios:

When you can release the fear that you’re not going to have enough, you can start to look to other people who are looking to execute God’s vision in your world and say, “How do we give to what God is doing in your space also?”

Todd Phelps:

Yeah.

Mingo Palacios:

There’s a really great like block. You cast off what I think the enemy is trying to do to go like, “But dude is your ministry going to make it?” And it’s like, “I trust God enough to say yes and the way that we’re going to do that is me by being generous to somebody else’s ministry.” And you don’t have to be a senior pastor to make this kind of move. You can be a young adult pastor, you can be a men’s pastor, you can be a leader of one ministry and you can say, “Hey, there’s a need in a ministry that’s not at our church. What does it look like for us to bless them?” I think that statement declares God’s supremacy. It declares same team mentality. It deconstructs competition and it speaks volumes to the people that are looking at you as the leader and it says, “Oh, they’re on our team also.”

Todd Phelps:

Yeah.

Mingo Palacios:

We had Todd speaking at Torrey Pines and you guys are doing your first like interest or you’ve probably done several of them, but one of the first interests, like gatherings at Torrey Pines is happening at our church. That would be shocking for some people to be like, “Wait a minute, you’re going to hold an interest party for another church when this church certainly has room to grow.”

Todd Phelps:

Yeah. It’s just being generous, man. It’s just being generous. It’s having that generous spirit. It’s like tithing. It doesn’t make sense totally. God says, “You can actually live on more, you’re going to have more, you’re going to be more blessed when you give 10%. You can live a better life on 90% then you can on 100%.” And I think it’s that way in leadership and church work and it’s great man. It is, like you said, it’s very refreshing and it’s very different. It’s very counter cultural in the church world even right now, which is, which is sad, but it is refreshing.

Mingo Palacios:

Well, I think we’re entering into an era where churches, because of I think a mutuality, we have a generation that is very like, “I’m for you. I’m for what you’re about, also. It’s not exclusively about me and my thing.”

Todd Phelps:

Yes.

Mingo Palacios:

I think that that’s going to pay major dividends to the local church as our generation becomes more and more authoritative. We hold more and more seats of authority inside the local church. I’m just praying we don’t all step away. Right? That’s the big fear is everyone’s like, “Uh the church, I’m not really sure if that’s got space for me.” I’m begging you. I’m telling you right now, your heartbeat belongs for like several people God has marked the local church for their future.

Todd Phelps:

Yes.

Mingo Palacios:

Don’t step away because it’s challenging.

Todd Phelps:

Right.

Mingo Palacios:

Right. Don’t step away because between the vision and the payout, right. Where you actually get to like go open doors, the process in the middle, that is where your character is forged.

Todd Phelps:

Yes, absolutely.

Mingo Palacios:

And it’s on both sides. It’s both the church trying to start something or the ministry trying to launch something, the leader trying to begin something new and the people that the Lord is going to bring into that person’s space to help see that vision come to fruition. It’s a big faith jump on both people’s sides. Any observation guys, any observation on your guys’ end? Any questions for Todd as we’ve been like digging into this? I’m going to dig into the Facebook feed and see if there’s a question. I know Tim Holt dropped a question, but feel free as we’ve got a few viewers online looking to jump in. What did you think when you actually, you’ve been at Torrey Pines for a long time, Daniel and we’ve launched our, let me kick your mic back up. I got love for you. We’ve pumped out three churches to this day from Torrey Pines’s stage that I’m aware of. We talked about Aloha Church. We brought them and their team up. We talked about Captivate Church with Westin and his crew.

Todd Phelps:

So good.

Mingo Palacios:

We threw that mad props and gave them some screen time during our program. And now Todd preaching, that’s not the last time you’re going to see of him. What’s it like belonging to or what’s it like seeing that from your posture at the church?

Daniel:

Yeah. It kind of brings this idea that it’s bigger than me. You know, that this whole thing, like they’re have been weekends where like, I think I’ve felt maybe like a little bit lost within this entire thing. But that idea I remind myself of is it like this whole mission, this whole movement, this whole Kingdom mindset, if you will, is bigger than me. It’s bigger than us. Like it’s bigger than, “oh, well like when am I going to get my recognition?”

Mingo Palacios:

How old are you, Daniel?

Daniel:

28.

Mingo Palacios:

28. Interesting because so many people are wondering how to captivate a 28 year old in ministry and notice his answer is, “It’s bigger than me. It’s bigger than us.” You want to grab the heartbeat of a 28 year old? You’ve got to put a vision that’s bigger than your church can digest on its own. That’s what I love about Daniel being at the table in this particular season. I got two questions for you. One, what’s your biggest advice on building a team? That came from Matt Perry. You know him back down in south, in Chula.

Todd Phelps:

Hi Matt.

Mingo Palacios:

What is your advice on building a strong team?

Todd Phelps:

Oh man, that’s a great, great question. Building a team I think takes time, takes work. I think building the team starts with the leader. Are you leading yourself and are you a leader worth following.

Mingo Palacios:

That’s good.

Todd Phelps:

Do people look at you and say, “I want to follow that guy”? That’s a question I ask all the time. And I’ll tell you this like not just as a leader, but as a husband, as a father, as a follower of Jesus, is my relationship with God worth following? Is My marriage worth following? Is my fatherhood worth following? And I think those are hard questions, but it really starts with that. Starts with character, starts with, who am I? Am I becoming the man that I should be?

Mingo Palacios:

Yeah. I like that. I liked that you started with time. No. Great team, let alone no great thing happens in short order.

Todd Phelps:

Yeah.

Mingo Palacios:

As quickly as it gets put together, it can as quickly come apart. So if you take time building something, it’s going to have dividends. Right? You can’t microwave great teams. Tim Holt asked the question, “Todd, as you’ve transitioned from the East Coast to Southern California, has your approach to church planting and ministry leading had to change in any particular ways?”

Todd Phelps:

[laughing] Yeah, I think it’s very, you have a more of a European culture.

Mingo Palacios:

Who?

Todd Phelps:

Here in Southern California.

Mingo Palacios:

Oh okay.

Todd Phelps:

Yeah, of course you do.

Mingo Palacios:

I ate crepes this morning.

Todd Phelps:

[laughing]

Mingo Palacios:

I had crepes this morning.

Todd Phelps:

You know, I wasn’t talking about the crepes Bro and I was talking about like-

Mingo Palacios:

Spirituality.

Todd Phelps:

How people think about-

Todd Phelps:

[laughing]

Mingo Palacios:

Crepes are spiritual bro.

Todd Phelps:

Crepes are good though, gelato, grapes, whatever.

Mingo Palacios:

[laughing]

Todd Phelps:

But the way people think here is just different, you know, in the southeast, people wake up thinking about church on Sunday mornings, they think about faith, they think about God. That’s not the case here.

Mingo Palacios:

Yeah. It’s very post-Christian.

Todd Phelps:

Very post-Christian. I think it’s here in San Diego, maybe 4% actually go to church.

Mingo Palacios:

Yeah it’s staggering.

Todd Phelps:

20% would consider themselves Christians. That is very, very different from where I’m from.

Mingo Palacios:

I’m curious to know with the connectedness that you have with EastLake, are you thinking forward about how you’re going to connect other ministry efforts? Have you ever heard the term like planting pregnant? That sounds weird.

Todd Phelps:

Yes. Yes.

Mingo Palacios:

I don’t necessarily believe that’s the best term.

Todd Phelps:

[laughing] It’s probably not. My wife would agree with you.

Mingo Palacios:

But like you’re already in your mind thinking about how you’re going to pay it forward in a sense.

Todd Phelps:

Yeah. I want to. I want to plant pregnant. It’s terrible. It’s a terrible phrase. But, uh, yeah, bringing a leader alongside me as I’m in the beginning stages and as we go into our first year, second year, I’d love to plant in the second year out of REVÉ Church just because I believe in it and I’ve seen what’s happening at Eastlake church. I’ve seen what’s happening at some of these other multiplying churches. I know the need in San Diego and in the country, in the world really. There’s a need for more churches to be planted. A church being planted brings more evangelism, brings more people to faith, more people get baptized through a new church plant.

Mingo Palacios:

Totally.

Todd Phelps:

Than anything else, so, I love that idea.

Mingo Palacios:

Just listen. I’m sorry, it just stands out to me so much. The heartbeat of the currently like planting pastor is, “I’m not thinking about building a large Kingdom. Like, so be it Lord, if you want our church to have a large footprint, but I’m instantly already before our doors are open, hoping and building vision for how I’m going to help somebody else launch.” I really do think this is a critical shift in the mentality of church leadership from a decade ago.

Todd Phelps:

Yeah. And I think really it comes out of redefining success. You know, success for me is not a mega church. Success for me is not a certain amount of people. A success for me is really obeying God.

Mingo Palacios:

That’s great.

Todd Phelps:

At the end of the day, it’s really like, “God did I fulfill your will?” If Jesus, it sounds funny, but like if Jesus, His ministry was all about Him saying, “Man, I’m not here to do what I want to do. I’m here to do what the Father tells me to do. I’m not here for My will. I’m here for the Father’s will. I’m not here to fulfill My plans. I’m here to fulfill the Father’s plans.” Meaning, if that was Jesus saying that and doing those things, how much more?

Mingo Palacios:

How much more should we, yeah. So good. This lady, Shannon Phelps is like all hearts and like kissy faces all over the feed now.

Todd Phelps:

[laughing]

Mingo Palacios:

But she just said it, she wrapped it in one great word, the word obedience. And sometimes obedience is not going to make your thing great.

Todd Phelps:

Yeah.

Mingo Palacios:

You realize that sometimes in God’s economy He will take one thing and He will burn it down to the ashes in order to start something else. And it could be, this is like a hyper varsity spiritual reality that like your thing might need to decrease in order for the next thing to increase.

Todd Phelps:

Yeah. I mean, for us, you know, honestly, we’re, we’re in this because of that word obedience. We’re here in San Diego planting a brand new church in Carmel Valley in 2019 because God wants us to do this. Will we have five people that show up? I don’t know.

Todd Phelps:

Well, I mean it’s you Shannon.

Mingo Palacios:

Can we get a commitment to just one today? Can we get a commitment to just one?

Todd Phelps:

Are we going to have seven? Are we going to have, you know, 10? Are we going to, you know, I don’t know. I can’t tell you. I don’t know the future. I don’t know what God has in mind for us. I can tell you with some degree of certainty that He’s called us to this. But what I can tell you with absolute certainty is that we are here because we’re obeying God.

Mingo Palacios:

It’s good.

Todd Phelps:

And that He has opened the doors. He has opened the doors. He Has orchestrated all of the circumstances that we’re literally walking out right now. And so, that’s success for me. That’s what I was going back to. I think that we have to redefine success as obeying God and doing what he wants us to do, doing His will. And I think the greatness thing has to blow up in light of social media, in light of really mega churches and all that. We have to stop looking at all that stuff and say, “No, really actually success is doing the will of my Father.”

Mingo Palacios:

So good. We’ve said it time and time again that like your responsibility is the depth of your ministry, the depth of your reaction and response to God and God’s responsibility is the breadth of your ministry.

Todd Phelps:

Yes.

Mingo Palacios:

Right? How far it reaches and it really will only reach as much as He knows you’re capable of handling in each season that you’re at the helm. Right. I think of like churches that are like, “Gosh, if we could just double in size.” God’s probably not bringing you twice the amount of people because you’re not ready for twice the amount of people. You’re not there yet as a team. You’re not there yet as a leader. We’re not there yet as a team. We’re not there at as a leadership team, but we’re trusting that God is taking us down that pathway. We’re obedient to that if that’s where He wants to go, so be it.

Todd Phelps:

Yeah. Yeah.

Mingo Palacios:

It’s good. It’s really good. Any thoughts as we close down the episode? Somebody on the verge of launching something, what would be your advice to them, whether it’s a church or a ministry or even just coming, going public with like some crazy idea that they know they’re going to come up against like challenge and adversity and maybe some people are going to naysay their effort. What would you tell them?

Todd Phelps:

Yeah, I would say, the name of our Church has REVÉ, which is a word that literally means to dream. It’s a verb that means to dream. It’s an action. It’s something that we don’t just think about or believe it’s something that we do. It’s something that we live out and listen, I’m going to tell you right here everyone listening and you guys at the table, we have to dream big. The future depends on us doing this, having a vision, dreaming big. I don’t think we do God any-

Mingo Palacios:

Justice.

Todd Phelps:

Justice by dreaming small dreams. In fact, I think one of the greatest sense of Christendom is that our dreams are too small.

Mingo Palacios:

Wow.

Todd Phelps:

We’ve sailed too close to the shore and I think when we step out and when we believe God for great things, when we believe God for big things that He’s calling us to and we take steps of faith and we make those acts of courage to follow Him in that way, He’s going to meet us.

Mingo Palacios:

That’s good.

Todd Phelps:

And that’s what faith is. That’s what pleases God. Faith pleases God. It’s the one thing. And so I would just encourage all of us to keep dreaming, dream big and to obey. I mean, these are character things and I’ve got these man, I’m like, “God, I totally screwed that up.” You know, like I need to be a better dad. I need to be a better husband. I’m always thinking about these things, but it’s the character thing. Am I really obeying God today in this moment and then am I taking steps of faith following Him?

Mingo Palacios:

That’s great. I keep hearing like great vision execution or the ability to tackle the greatest vision starts with granular obedience.

Todd Phelps:

Yes.

Mingo Palacios:

Right? It’s what’s in front of you right now that helps you get to that place there and then that God’s building in your heart.

Todd Phelps:

Yeah and I wouldn’t worry about the destination so much. We all have great visions and dreams but sometimes I think we get so caught up in the, “Well, how’s it all going to work out and how am I going to get there?” And I mean, look at Jonah man. Like Jonah lived in complete disobedience. God is going to get you to where He wants you to go.

Mingo Palacios:

That’s good.

Todd Phelps:

You know, there is no plan B. He’s going to get you there. It might be a little quicker if you would just obey and listen. [laughing]

Mingo Palacios:

Go with God’s flow. Go with God’s flow.

Todd Phelps:

You might not have to take the belly of a whale, you know, but if it takes a belly of the whale, He’s going to get there. So yeah.

Mingo Palacios:

That’s really good. Todd, I appreciate you. I appreciate just your heart. How do people follow up with REVÉ Church as you are continuing to push this thing forward, what’s your guys’ website and what’s a great way to stay connected?

Todd Phelps:

Go to reve.church. R-E-V-E dot church. You can follow us there. We’ve got an interest meeting coming up. If you’re in San Diego, come to that. That’s at Torrey Pines Church November 11th and yeah, those are the best ways.

Mingo Palacios:

I love it guys. Thanks so much for hanging out with us on the podcast. Even if you are listening by chance. It could be that God is keying you up and He’s teeing you up for the reality that you’re going to go on a journey, right? That what He’s planted in your heart and what He wants to do through you is a process and you can’t do it alone. If you try to do it without the support of others, it could be that that vision, that idea, that thing God wants to do never comes to the surface. And what a shame that would be for the people He was looking to impact through you. So, my encouragement, dream big.

Todd Phelps:

So good.

Mingo Palacios:

Be faithful in the granular and don’t be alone. Just invite people to the process even if it means just being with you. It doesn’t have to have critical legs at this point, but like we’re doing here, like just be with us and let’s see what God does in the process. Amen.

Todd Phelps:

So good.

Mingo Palacios:

Love you guys. Daniel, can you shut down the livestream? Love you livestream. For our podcast listeners, so thankful for you guys to be with us. Always, always, always we appreciate your time. You can share this conversation. You can go to thepdpodcast.com and you can check the backlog of the better part of like 70 episodes-

Todd Phelps:

Wow.

Mingo Palacios:

Cutting across nearly two years of ministry learnings.

Todd Phelps:

Wow.

Mingo Palacios:

Please take advantage of that as you continue to walk this journey with us. And if this episode hit you in a way that somebody came to your mind, maybe it’s your leadership, maybe it’s your team, I would encourage you grab the episode, tag them all in it and listen together and have a conversation about what it looks like to contextualize this in your own rhythm. Maybe there’s a group that’s coming to the surface that you need to be a part of launching. Maybe your church is going to experience a revitalization when you start helping other churches come to the surface.

Todd Phelps:

Yeah.

Mingo Palacios:

I believe God’s go that kind of crazy in Him. He’s got that kind of recklessness in Him that He loves to see other things come to life, and maybe the solution you’re looking for in your own church is actually going to happen when you start looking at other efforts and start paying deeply into those. Just crazy thought. Who knows? Love you guys. Todd, I appreciate you being on the podcast. We’ll talk to you guys soon.

Mingo Palacios:

We hope today’s insights left you feeling inspired and propelled towards your greatest potential. Thanks again for joining us for another episode of the PD Podcast. Until next time.