Mingo Palacios:

Welcome to the Purpose Driven Church Podcast where we sit down with leaders in and around the church to discuss current trends and challenges and how the five purposes of the local church matter today more than ever.

Mingo Palacios:

Hey everybody, welcome to the Purpose Driven Podcast, Mingo here. Happy 2019. As we are making our way super quickly in and through January, today, another great episode unlike any other because we’re actually having a conversation all about the power and the value of bringing a podcast to your ministry. Now I’m assuming because you are listening to this, that you are savvy about being a consumer of podcasts, but today we’re going to talk about the value of actually being a creator, a content creator. Maybe you’re inside of a ministry, maybe you lead one and you think that’s just the job of your pastor. Maybe you’re a pastor and you’re thinking, “Man, I actually would love to see what it would look like, explore the idea of creating content.” Well, we’ve invited some really great friends. I’m going to give them the chance to introduce themselves and the massive influence that the Lord has allowed them to have through their own personal podcast. Your guys’ story almost a decade worth of podcasting together. Why don’t you say hi to our listenership today. Thanks for joining us on the show.

Tony DiLorenzo:

Yeah. Hello everybody. My name is Tony DiLorenzo and I’m here with my beautiful wife Alisa.

Alisa DiLorenzo:

Hello everyone.

Mingo Palacios:

I love it. And you guys run what podcasts? Just if people, if you’ve got the voices for radio, you’ve got the voices for podcasts, what is the podcast that you guys have been hosting and fostering and cultivating for the last almost 10 years together?

Alisa DiLorenzo:

So the show is called, “The One Extraordinary Marriage Show”.

Mingo Palacios:

I love it. “The One Extraordinary Marriage Show”. And just for credential sake, right? Everybody wants to know, tell me how legit this actually is. How many episodes have you guys put under your belt?

Tony DiLorenzo:

462 with that show.

Mingo Palacios:

I love it. Yeah. 462. And you guys started, you said in your garage?

Alisa DiLorenzo:

In our garage January 10th of 2010.

Mingo Palacios:

I love it. Now for the sake of just a little bit more context, what was it like when you guys decided to get going? Certainly was a lot more difficult then, than it is now. Right? I love it. You’re squeezing each other’s hands because this is a true statement. What was it like when you guys got started and then, you know, what have you kind of discovered along the way as you have really been faithful to steward a vision through this podcast?

Tony DiLorenzo:

Yeah, so I’m gonna just put this out there. When we first started, we had no clue what a podcast was. So right now it’s in our everyday lexicon. Nine years ago, 10 years ago, we didn’t know what that was. So we had a friend of ours who mentioned it to us, brought it up to us. I was like, “Man, that sounds amazing.” I ended up hiring a coach to get us started. So I got all the equipment, started learning how to even get it up on iTunes back in the day. And I remember this box coming with all of our equipment and I was like, “Alisa, here it is. We’re going to start podcasting.” And she just looked at me and sort of said, “Uh huh.” And that box sat around for what, three months you would say?

Alisa DiLorenzo:

In our hallway, we had to step over it every day.

Mingo Palacios:

It was a great reminder every day. [laughing]

Alisa DiLorenzo:

It was a great reminder and finally I said, “Are we doing something with this or is it the most expensive paperweight I’ve ever purchased in my entire life?” And that’s when we opened the box and we set up all this equipment. I remember being so awkward. I, I wish we had the outtake video.

Tony DiLorenzo:

Yeah.

Alisa DiLorenzo:

Or reel of that first show.

Mingo Palacios:

Did you start with video? I mean, did you do that together simultaneously or you just went for audio recordings?

Tony DiLorenzo:

Audio.

Alisa DiLorenzo:

We just went for audio. It just would be really funny if we could see how awkward we were.

Mingo Palacios:

Yes.

Alisa DiLorenzo:

Because when you start something new, it’s always awkward.

Mingo Palacios:

Yes. It’s so true. It’s just like small, it’s ugly like a little bird, right? You’re like, “Eventually one day you’ll fly, you’ll look gorgeous. But in this moment you don’t even look fit enough to eat.” Right?

Alisa DiLorenzo:

And Alisa says, she was like, I’m going to do 10 episodes maybe and then we’ll just call this good.”

Mingo Palacios:

Oh yeah.

Tony DiLorenzo:

And lo and behold, you know, 462 episodes later, we have found honestly our purpose for where we’re supposed to be here in this life and in touching marriages and in reaching out to them.

Mingo Palacios:

So excellent. Do you guys have like a ministry background? Just for the sake of like our listenership, if they don’t know your podcast, if they don’t know you guys, did you, prior to launching your podcast, were you guys leading in a ministry? Were you leading in a marriage ministry pastoring anywhere? What’s your background?

Alisa DiLorenzo:

We weren’t. We were planted in a church at that point in time where we were leading a small group and that’s really where the catalyst was. We were leading a small group and Tony had said, and this is about a year before we started the podcast, “What if we did a small group study on sex?” Because we were speaking to married couples and whatnot in this group. And, and I remember thinking, “We’re not even having sex.” Right?

Mingo Palacios:

[laughing]

Alisa DiLorenzo:

And so it was like, “What are we going to do? What are we going to talk about?”

Mingo Palacios:

Rated PG-13, this episode just went there. I love it.

Alisa DiLorenzo:

Right? Because you know, we were just in this place of being roommates.

Mingo Palacios:

Yeah.

Alisa DiLorenzo:

And so it was out of, you know, stepping into this place of saying, “You know what? We are going to talk about sex in the church just in our small group.” We got really bold with our couples and said, “We’re doing this 60 days of sex challenge” during the same time that we’re doing the small group. But it was out of that when we were asked to speak at the churches marriage conference and we shared our story about going through and transforming our marriage, that people started asking us, “What’s next?”

Tony DiLorenzo:

Right.

Alisa DiLorenzo:

And I’m thinking, “What do you mean what’s next?” And it was out of that where our first book came. And as we were doing the first book, people started saying, “Okay, but what else?”

Mingo Palacios:

I love it. So this is kind of a story of supply and demand even, where you guys put something on the table and it was consumed. There was a great response to it and there was a demand of something more.

Tony DiLorenzo:

Yeah. And it was just growing it over time but when we first started, there was no podcast app on your phone. I mean, people had a search for us. And so we really felt like, “Man.” I remember one of the first people who ever reached out to us was from Alaska. And I saw that and I remember just sharing it with Alisa. It was an email. I’m like, “Look at this babe. Somebody from Alaska is reaching out to us because they heard us and we’ve touched their life and their marriage.” I go, “We can’t stop now. We’ve got to just keep going. Let’s just keep going.”

Alisa DiLorenzo:

Yeah.

Mingo Palacios:

Well for our listeners, you know, the idea I think, and this is the same boat I was in. I was so excited to put something new out and a part of this podcast origin, Rick had been the originator of the Purpose Driven Podcast. And so I felt like I was stepping into some major shoes, right? And you listened to those original episodes. All people who are hallmarking pastors, they are influencing, I would argue, much of the global church today. And you know, I wrestled with the idea like if what we do, what we have to say in the shadows of that kind of great ministry footprint, does that even matter? And I think that there’s a lot of people probably who will be listening to this are running honest and good and impactful local ministries who it may even be wrestling with the idea, is a podcast even going to matter? So here’s what I want to put on the table for our listeners today as we get going. What are the unexpected values of attaching a podcast to a ministry, right? Are there things that obviously you guys were running a ministry and this was supplementing it and it really became the shining star out of it. And then the second question is going to be, what are some of the things, maybe two or three things, that you can maybe identify or things that you can recommend for people to get started smart and started healthy? Maybe some things that you can help accelerate their efforts. So, question number one, what really are, I mean, you guys, just detailed, a little bit about your story, but if a pastor or a ministry leader is listening and goes, “Man, it looks like it’s a lot of work to start.” What would you tell them as way of potential benefit concerning what they’re doing?

Alisa DiLorenzo:

Well, I think it brings a depth to what you’re doing. I mean, what we learned over the years is that people have developed a relationship with us, it’s not just, you know, you see somebody on a Sunday. You may hear them because you can listen to a podcast any day of the week at any point in time. I can be out jogging with somebody on a Tuesday and out mowing the lawn with them on a Thursday night and maybe while they’re sitting there rocking their baby, you know? And so you have this opportunity to be a part of someone’s life, not just on a Sunday.

Mingo Palacios:

That’s good. It’s a proximity; an intimacy and you guys talk about intimacy so much. But it really is that literal intimacy of having like a pseudo connection with somebody and we’re talking about the opportunities or ways to develop an exchange of opinions, words, processes that it’s really not just a one way channel anymore. It once was.

Tony DiLorenzo:

Nope. And it’s not any more. And I think the biggest thing too, for us as ministry leaders that we really need to remember and where we are now in our time in place where everybody’s so connected, really, people want you to be open, honest, and transparent with them. They want you to be real with them, and so just being on the platform and speaking and preaching, there’s a lot of power there. There’s a one way exchange. I love being in my church. I love hearing my pastors preach, and yet there’s this thing where when you’re behind the microphone and you can get into something that maybe really impacted you and it could be, even if you’re following your sermon, you know, and you’re going like, “But this is the outtake to all of that.”

Mingo Palacios:

Right. This is the application; this is my beside thought process on this, the unscripted, yet collected thoughts going deeper into something. Certainly that’s a benefit for sure for somebody. I think of like the initial startup costs. You guys have helped, I’m assuming, several other people kind of navigate the genesis of their own efforts. For somebody who has never even like explored the idea of launching a podcast, what would you say is like the general costs, and I’m not even thinking dollars and cents. What kind of commitments need to be made in order to have a successful podcast effort?

Alisa DiLorenzo:

Well, you actually hit on that word, right? Commitment, right? You do a one and done and you’re expecting it to transform the world?

Mingo Palacios:

Right.

Alisa DiLorenzo:

Not going to do it. Yeah. I mean, we tell people now, “If you’re starting a podcast, be committed to having the first 10 to 20 shows ready to go when you launch because we’re in a binge culture.”

Mingo Palacios:

Yeah. Good.

Alisa DiLorenzo:

Somebody finds you and they want to consume your material and they connect with you. They want to listen, you know, all day, every day.

Mingo Palacios:

Yeah.

Alisa DiLorenzo:

And so if you’re like, “Well, I’ve got two shows.” They’re going to be like, “Eh.”

Mingo Palacios:

They’ll consume it and they’ll move on.

Alisa DiLorenzo:

Right. Next.

Mingo Palacios:

That’s the tragedy in it is that you may not not get listened to, the tragedy is you might get listened to and forgotten about.

Tony DiLorenzo:

Exactly. And for weekly, we have a 30 minute show as well each and every week and we’ve done this for nine years now. And so I’m thinking about Alisa and I have time where we’re just going about our week and we’re thinking about what’s happening in our marriage and other marriages and so it’s the thought of the idea and then from the idea process it goes into Alisa’s hands and she does our show notes. We’re still discussing what does this look like. We’ll go even to our Instagram folks and we do a ton of polls over there now. Like, when we’re trying to get a read of what we’re doing or the topic we’re covering, we like to have some numbers and just hear back from the One Family. And so we’ll put something out over there. We’re monitoring that for 24 hours and then we do the actual recording and that’s 30 minutes and then your backside of you know, production or whatever you’re going to do to get it out there.

Mingo Palacios:

I’m wondering if somebody is listening and going, “I might be able to afford the time and I might have the clarity of thought to piece together several episodes, maybe put together a series” the manpower at the most basic level, what would you say it requires of you, and I have my own answer because we’re managing this podcast, but for as long as you guys have done it, what do you think the bare minimum would be if somebody is thinking about launching.

Tony DiLorenzo:

How many hours you work?

Mingo Palacios:

Yeah or I would say if you’re putting a 30 minute show together a week, I mean is there a staff?

Tony DiLorenzo:

2 hours.

Mingo Palacios:

Do you have to hire staff for it? Did you guys manage it yourself? Did you edit yourself?

Tony DiLorenzo:

Here’s the way I’ve run our podcast from the beginning. It is unedited. It is unscripted other than we know what we’re talking about. But I do not go in, we do not go in and take out all the “ums” and “uhs” and this or there may be some silence when Alisa and I are talking or things that are made. I get in there.

Mingo Palacios:

Just very raw.

Alisa DiLorenzo:

Very raw.

Tony DiLorenzo:

I just, I normalize it. I cut the front, I cut the back and I sent it out because again, everything is overproduced and I think that’s what’s happening in podcasting as well now. It’s becoming overproduced. So I like us just being real.

Mingo Palacios:

Real polished.

Tony DiLorenzo:

This is who we are. You’re going to put out your pastoral or your preaching message. Great.

Mingo Palacios:

Yeah. Your pastoral content is by nature going to be polished.

Alisa DiLorenzo:

Well, and you’re going to have your team, you know, as they’re cutting it, they’re doing all of that. That’s all their production team at your church.

Mingo Palacios:

Yeah.

Alisa DiLorenzo:

But if you’re going into the podcasting space, you may actually want to consider being a little more raw.

Mingo Palacios:

That’s good.

Alisa DiLorenzo:

Right? Like allow, I mean, Tony just referred to the One Family, that’s what we call our tribe.

Mingo Palacios:

So good.

Alisa DiLorenzo:

Right? And so they know that there are times when Tony and Lisa get behind the microphone and there are tears flowing in a show or we’re irritated with one another or we’re laughing at something that the other person said and they connect with that. And there’s that vulnerability that as you put a podcast out there, you actually allow people to see more than just who you are on a Sunday.

Mingo Palacios:

Yeah. That’s so good.

Alisa DiLorenzo:

Or how you show up when you’re leading your ministry, but you allow them into a place where a lot of folks won’t get to see you.

Mingo Palacios:

Yeah.

Alisa DiLorenzo:

And it creates what we’re also desperate for right now, which is connection. We know a lot of people, but do we have those real connections?

Mingo Palacios:

I think really it’s like you’re taking the first step, for transparency. I know as leaders, you lead by example, you lead by doing, you lead by showing and really plotting the course. And if it’s something I can’t think of a single ministry leader who wouldn’t put transparency and connectedness off of the top five values inside of their ministry, this is such a great engine to create that. And it actually puts the burden on the leader to do it first. How oftentimes do we want to ask the question but then throw it to the audience, right? You get transparent first. This is such a great almost like, it’s like accountability. Like it allows you and it gives you an opportunity to first speak to your own transparencies, your own thoughts, and then allow that to be the, you know, the catalyzer or the catalyst for your listener audience, your family. I love, that you call him that to really see you in a light maybe they wouldn’t catch you. And you guys, are you still leading a bible study? Are you still leading in like in any physical way where you’re gathering people together? I assume your show has afforded you some speaking opportunities. But what’s that day to day look like? Did it, did you have to exchange one for the other?

Alisa DiLorenzo:

So we actually now over, you know, many years, because again, nine years we’ve gone from, you know, where we were leading a small group to we are now in the assimilation directors at our church and we oversee six different teams in addition to doing the One Extraordinary Marriage Show and everything we do, they are raising two kids, you know. So it’s really been interesting to see how literally from small beginnings, God has not just expanded the show but stretched our capacity.

Mingo Palacios:

So good.

Alisa DiLorenzo:

You know, as we’ve taken on this mantle of going after marriages and really creating a place for marriages to get healthy, we’ve been afforded more opportunities to interact with people, to grow people, to develop who they are.

Mingo Palacios:

I love it.

Tony DiLorenzo:

And we also put on our own One Conference. So that’s where we get to meet with the One Family. This year we’re going to have two different conferences, one in North Carolina, one here in San Diego. And that’s where they can come in, we can hang out. And it’s truly a blessing because we do all of this. And when we started it was only over the airwaves or people were just listening. But now when you get to see them and you get to hug them and we get to tell him we love them and we get to see the transformation that’s happening in their lives. And they already know who we are.

Mingo Palacios:

Of course. Yeah. They’ve built like this rapport with you guys through the process.

Tony DiLorenzo:

They know us and we just get to get to know them more at those moments. And it’s, I love it personally.

Mingo Palacios:

I love it. And you guys have never been like radio, like professionals prior to this, right? [laughing] No?E

Alisa DiLorenzo:

No media background.

Tony DiLorenzo:

None whatsoever.

Mingo Palacios:

Okay, so that should be permission giver number one. We’re all about giving permission on our podcast.

Tony DiLorenzo:

Yeah.

Mingo Palacios:

You don’t have to have a radio like degree. You don’t have to be in broadcasting to try. And we have had several conversations kind of in a roundabout way on our podcast about the easy ways to get started. You don’t need a studio, you don’t need condenser microphones and pop filters. You can literally get somewhere together with the technology advancements today. Instagram gives you live opportunities.

Tony DiLorenzo:

Yup.

Mingo Palacios:

Facebook gives you them we’re using it right now. Youtube is giving it to you. Soon Linkedin is going to give you those opportunities. There’s no excuse outside of probably fear and time commitment to not create an alternate approach or an additional offering of content for people that you’re trying to serve inside your ministry.

Alisa DiLorenzo:

Yeah, absolutely.

Tony DiLorenzo:

Stay committed. That’s the big one. Stay committed. I think today there’s too many folks in their ministry, they get frustrated because they haven’t seen any movement in three months.

Mingo Palacios:

Oh, that’s good. Oh, and you wrote three months and everybody’s like, “No! I have to do it more than that?” We live in such a microwave generation. Right? That instant return on minimal investment. Let’s talk about that. When you wanted to quit, are there key things? If somebody, maybe there’s a listener who had started one and it got real dusty. Maybe they didn’t see the 1000 views, you know, 1000 downloads that they wanted, give me some advice for somebody maybe in the valleys of their podcasting efforts.

Tony DiLorenzo:

Wow. Episode 84, 85.

Alisa DiLorenzo:

Yes.

Tony DiLorenzo:

That was the first time for us.

Alisa DiLorenzo:

Tony wanted to quit. He called me one day and he’s like, “I’m done.” And he had just partly because it is the two of us and we’re talking about our marriage, we’re very transparent and he was taking a lot of criticism for something he had said or done. And I was on the phone, I said, “Are you willing to pay for marriage counseling?” Because we’re either going to do this show or we’re going to start paying someone to help us have a conversation. But you know, when you’re in that place of, you know, the valley of thinking, “Is this not working?” Remember why you started it in the first place.

Tony DiLorenzo:

Yes.

Alisa DiLorenzo:

You didn’t start it to get a thousand downloads. You didn’t have, I mean, where we were then we started our show because we wanted to impact one marriage.

Tony DiLorenzo:

One that was it.

Alisa DiLorenzo:

And we still don’t know whose marriage that is. So we get up every morning and we record once a week because that’s our mission. The numbers are great. And you know, everybody wants to talk about numbers, but you started for a reason. God has put a calling on your life. He’s given you a voice and He’s given you a message. And so you don’t just stop because you’re like, “Oh yeah, I’m not seeing it.” Right? Right. You stop when God tells you to stop. You keep going through that and you say, okay, you know what you press in.

Mingo Palacios:

Yeah.

Alisa DiLorenzo:

And you talk to people and you develop that backbone, that strength to say, “You know what? Even when it’s hard, yet, keep going.”

Mingo Palacios:

Yeah. That forges character; that’s something off the show notes. It’s something that you get to walk away with because you decided to continue to go. That’s that perseverance.

Tony DiLorenzo:

And you learn through that, right? Because you continue to grow. God expands you now you can handle more. So if you were to just start your podcast and all of a sudden you’ve got 20,000 downloads and people are hitting you up, you might not be ready for that.

Mingo Palacios:

Yeah that’s so good.

Tony DiLorenzo:

But as you go through that growth, and for us that was a stage for me. I was getting criticized and I had to really check myself and I had to understand, am I going to take that criticism and slink away and allow the devil to win or am I going to rise up and go, “No. My calling on my life is like Alisa said, we want to touch one marriage.” That might not be the marriage. And yet there’s this marriage out there that needs to hear our voice, that needs to hear our story, that needs to hear what’s going on so they can have breakthrough. And we’ve had that happen thousands and thousands of times.

Mingo Palacios:

Alisa, I love that. I love that you just started with just that. That goes beyond a podcast. That really is advice for every ministry in every season where you feel like you’ve hit a hard place and you’re not sure you’ve got it inside you to get over it. I’ll just tell you real easily. You probably don’t have it inside you. It’s really Christ working in and through that situation. So recognize your inability to accomplish it and give it over to Jesus and allow him to do what you can’t do on your own. For this conversation, just the value add, what would you guys tell a ministry leader? I know we talked about transparency, we talked about the need to be able to commit to it. I’m hoping they are taking notes and saying, “Okay, who’s going to help me commit to the consistency side?” I think I can think of a few people who can help draw that transparency. As a pastor, I know it’s easy for me to put like the stage me on a microphone, but I’ve invited critical people into my world. Robert and Liz are some of those people to be those speakers of truth when the microphone is on and go like, “Ah, you’re going to take me there. And now I can’t shy away from that. For somebody who is now on the verge of saying, “I think I want to commit to at least trying this.” What word of encouragement do you have for them? Looking at the last few minutes of our time together.

Tony DiLorenzo:

Wow. Um, Gosh. Well, what do you have babe?

Alisa DiLorenzo:

I would say do it. Right? If you’ve got that calling, if you’ve had that little thought in the back of your head, you know, you’re hearing from God, “This is what I need you to do” then it doesn’t have to be perfect. It doesn’t have to be fully produced. It doesn’t have to be, it doesn’t have to be the, the final pinnacle.

Mingo Palacios:

What you imagined it could be an all of its splendor and all of its glory.

Alisa DiLorenzo:

We were sitting in a garage in you know, a puffy North Face coat with a heater at our feet.

Mingo Palacios:

[laughing]

Tony DiLorenzo:

Yes.

Mingo Palacios:

The visual is amazing.

Alisa DiLorenzo:

Shivering. And that show we attempted to be fully scripted because we didn’t know what we’re doing. If you had told me then where I was going to be nine years later, I would have laughed in your face because I just, I didn’t know what I didn’t know, but I knew that there was a reason we had to start this. And I had to be in agreement with Tony on doing this, but do it. You can die. The enemy will talk you out of getting your voice out there. The enemy will talk you out of why this is a good idea. The enemy will say, “No one’s going to listen and no one wants you to do this and all of this kind of stuff. You just need to say, “You know what? Shut up.”

Mingo Palacios:

Yes.

Alisa DiLorenzo:

I’m going to go do this because there’s a message that only you can deliver and if you don’t deliver it, who loses out?

Mingo Palacios:

Who loses out? I feel like we just had church right now. I’m ready to like, I’ll become a member.

Tony DiLorenzo:

Let’s go. Let’s go.

Mingo Palacios:

[laughing]

Mingo Palacios:

Tony.

Tony DiLorenzo:

You’re part of The One Family.

Mingo Palacios:

Yeah. I just became a member. Tony, anything to add to that or is there something unique and distinct that came to your mind from just pulled the trigger? That’s what I heard on this side of the table. Don’t worry about it’s uh, it’s polishness. If there’s something God’s put in your heart, you need to be faithful to make your steps happen in the process. What would you say?

Tony DiLorenzo:

Gosh, I do have to follow that. It is, “Just do it,” and really when I’ve worked with people on the podcast, it’s the perfectionism that stops on. Yeah. And I would say you have to break free of that perfectionism and have some fun with it.

Mingo Palacios:

That’s good. Have Fun, it’s so important.

Tony DiLorenzo:

Just allow yourself to be you. And don’t worry if there again, are there “oohs” and “ums” and ticks or whatever, it’s okay. Get working on it. You’re going to grow through that.

Mingo Palacios:

I love it. That’s good. Well, we could have this conversation for so, I feel like we could build a series around the value of adding a podcast to your ministry. And maybe down the line we’ll get you guys as a guest again. If people wanted to follow up and be a part of the One Family, first let’s talk about where they can find your podcast. What are the keywords they can search to find it. And then I want to give people an opportunity to find you personally, maybe through social media or something like that, if they had more questions about podcasting as a vehicle. But maybe it’s just to be encouraged in their own marriage. I’m certain somebody is going to hear this and go, “Man, this is actually exactly what I’ve been looking for. What are those ways?

Tony DiLorenzo:

So show, One Extraordinary Marriage Show. You can find it on Itunes, Stitcher Radio, Spotify, wherever you’re looking One Extraordinary Marriage Show. Visit us at oneextraordinarymarriage.com. That’s where we have everything else. If you want to follow us on social, we are really active on Instagram. So, @oneextraordinarymarriage, I’m @TonyMDiLorenzo.

Alisa DiLorenzo:

And I’m @AlisaDilorenzo.

Mingo Palacios:

I love it. Guys, thank you so much for coming and just sharing a small piece but such an impactful piece of your guys’s marriage, your life and your ministry together. I hope if you’re listening to this show that you walked away feeling encouraged and that you felt a bit bolder than maybe when you started. My prayer is that you’d go rummaging through whatever stuff you have access to and determine whether or not God is actually calling you to start this portion of your ministry. Not for the sake of being known more, but just being faithful to the message that God’s put in your heart. If there’s something that He is giving you clarity on by way of a ministry, a podcast could be the exact vehicle you need to know about in order to see that ministry come to life. So, hopefully this gave you some of that insight. Please connect with the one amazing one epic family about what it looks like to do that well. And a special shout out to Robert and Liz Cortes and the RebelFish Local family for letting us record inside of their studio. We love you guys. We’ll talk to you guys soon.